Cisco UPOE

[CuninganReset]

Hello.
I need to power a Cisco 1570 Aironet AP and i see on the technical data that it uses "Cisco UPOE" a new Cisco PoE standard.
The Cisco "UPOE" has this characteristics.

And i want to know if i can power this with Netnonix-8-150-DC or any plan to power this with Netnonix because Cisco only sell 230Vac PoE injector.

[Julian]

Well, the pinout doesn't match, as you can see here, so without a device or schematic in hand to look at, I would say that it won't work;

Sometimes, some manufacturers put a bridge rectifier on the input of their devices to keep misterminated cable from frying the device. Cisco tends not to protect customers from themselves, in my experience, though, so I don't know that I would personally try it without opening the AP and taking a look at their input circuit, that could end badly.

hope that helps :/

[lligetfa]

Even if the pins did match up the specs say 54V is the min.

[CuninganReset]

Hello, thanks.
I have another question, i see this product from Tycon Power TP-DCDC-1256Gx-VHP and in the spec sheet it says that it can power AirFiber from UBNT but the pinout is similar to the Cisco pinout.

But i do not understand this because the AirFiber can be powered by a Netnonix Switch that have different power pins.
I am really confused.

Picture 2017-03-23 17_29_36.png (8.12 KiB) Viewed 5733 times

[sirhc]

Even if the pins did match up the specs say 54V is the min.

I am pretty sure it would work fine on 50V the real issue is polarity pinout in my opinion.

If it has bridge rectifier then it would work but I am not saying try it. - LOL

[sirhc]

The Cisco UPOE PIN polarity matches MIMOSA PIN polarity which does NOT match 802.3af/at MODE A and MODE B PIN polarity but yet the MIMOSA radio will work perfectly fine with our 48VH POE option because MIMOSA uses Bridge Rectifier circuits on their POE in to correct the PIN polarity.

I have no idea if Cisco employs such a bridge rectifier circuit

[CuninganReset]

But i really do not understand, AirFiber is compatible with Netonix, but also is compatible with Tycon but the pinouts are different???

This mean that Airfiber have internally a diode or something per pin to accomodate any voltaje pinout??

Netonix use 802.3at standad?

[sirhc]

This is not a hard concept to wrap your mind around.

I do not "think" AF has a bridge rectifier circuit to correct for wrong polarity pinouts, but to be honest at $1,500 to $3,000 per radio I never tried it nor I do not suggest it.

Netonix is a "passive" POE switch

802.3af/at with MODE A and MODE B is "active" POE

There is a Polarity PINOUT for 802.3af/at which is the pin polarity Netonix follows

Read these post several time:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1178 <= READ SEVERAL TIMES
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2382&p=16743&hilit=+mode+polarity+pin#p16743
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2373&p=16688&hilit=+mode+polarity+pin#p16688

Question: Can I power this device with Netonix.

Answer: Our switches are "passive" POE which means if POE is enabled on a port the power is live so if you plug in a cable that is shorted or the piece of equipment is bad or has an incompatible polarity PINOUT you will damage the port in the switch and probably the equipment, this damage is not covered under warranty.

There are 4 Pairs and 8 PINs in an Ethernet Cable:
Pair 1: White Orange.(PIN 1 ) & Orange.(PIN 2) is POSITIVE
Pair 2: White Green...(PIN 3) & Green...(PIN 6) is NEGATIVE
Pair 3: White Blue.....(PIN 4) & Blue.....(PIN 5) is POSITIVE
Pair 4: White Brown..(PIN 7) & Brown...(PIN 8) is NEGATIVE

24V POE Option @ .75A - constant draw can surge/spike to 1A:
802.3af/at MODE B pinout
Pair 3 / PINs 4, 5 are POSITIVE
Pair 2 & 4 / PINs 3, 6, 7, 8 are NEGATIVE

48V POE Option @.75A - constant draw can surge/spike to 1A:
802.3af/at MODE B[i] pinout[/i]
You would use this option to power most 802.3af/at devices like IP Phones and Cameras
Pair 3 / PINs 4, 5 are POSITIVE
Pair 2 & 4 / PINs 3, 6, 7, 8 are NEGATIVE

24VH POE Option @1.5A - constant draw can surge/spike to 2A:
802.3af/at MODE A & MODE B [i] pinout combined[/i]
Pair 1 & 3 / PINs 1, 2, 4, 5 are POSITIVE
Pair 2 & 4 / PINs 3, 6, 7, 8 are NEGATIVE

48VH POE Option @1.5A - constant draw can surge/spike to 2A:
802.3af/at MODE A & MODE B [i] pinout combined[/i]
Pair 1 & 3 / PINs 1, 2, 4, 5 are POSITIVE
Pair 2 & 4 / PINs 3, 6, 7, 8 are NEGATIVE

[Julian]

So, due diligence and research have been done, and we have an answer. This is a very confusing area, since the relevant standards are in a state of flux and are constantly being superseded by one another.

From IEEE 802.3at-2003:

Diode Bridges
: the standard requires the use of two diode bridges placed upon the data and spare entrances. The PD [powered device] must be able to accept power from either data or spare pairs and it should be insensitive to the power's polarity.

The PSE[Power sourcing equipment] side of the standard is ambiguous, in that it does not specifically say Positive on pair 3, Negative on pair 4, etc. It simply says you're allowed to send current down an ethernet cable. Our switch uses the most widely agreed-upon pinout for PSE, but a relevant IEEE standard simply does not exist for what we (and most other manufacturers in the WISP industry) are doing, yet.

Does the AF5x have diode bridges? I don't know, but I'm guessing it does, because that's the only way that both that tycon power brick and our switch will both power it.

Does UPOE specify diode bridges on the input? I don't know. I still have a couple of contacts over at Cisco, and I have some emails out to find out, but I'm not holding my breath that they know, either.

The trouble you run into is that standards, being in such a state of flux, are not universally agreed upon or followed, and generally to a greater extent than in other facets of the electronics field. IEEE802.3af does not provide for delivering power over all 4 pairs, which is a practice most manufacturers in the WISP industry safely follow. We're the generation of manufacturers that are writing the standard, at the bleeding edge, so to speak.

So whether UPOE follows the PD standard for 802.3af/at is unknown to me at this time. Some minor reverse engineering on your part would answer your question far better than I ever could, and would probably help your community, as well.

[CuninganReset]

I have asked to my IT department to lend me a AP for testing, but my last comment to them "maybe i would not return you the ap in good state" seem no confident for them.