WS-12-250DC Issues with POE Smart Is starting cable check

[Andy Hanson]

I noticed a ton of logs today on my switch and was wondering it appears most people have updated there firmware to the r3 but just want to make sure this will solve the problem I do not have another switch to pull this out of service but let me know what your thoughts are.


Feb 13 16:23:46 switch[797]: Port 1 cable check results: Ok, Ok, Short, Short
Feb 13 16:23:46 switch[797]: Port 1 passed PoE Smart cable check, turning on power
Feb 13 16:23:46 switch[797]: Port 5 cable check results: Open, Open, Short, Short
Feb 13 16:23:46 switch[797]: Port 5 passed PoE Smart cable check, turning on power
Feb 13 16:23:47 switch[797]: Port 2 cable check results: Ok, Open, Short, Short
Feb 13 16:23:47 switch[797]: Port 2 passed PoE Smart cable check, turning on power
Feb 13 16:23:47 switch[797]: Port 6 cable check results: Open, Open, Short, Short
Feb 13 16:23:47 switch[797]: Port 6 passed PoE Smart cable check, turning on power
Feb 13 16:23:47 switch[797]: Port 7 cable check results: Open, Open, Short, Short
Feb 13 16:23:47 switch[797]: Port 7 passed PoE Smart cable check, turning on power
Feb 13 16:23:47 switch[797]: Port 9 cable check results: Ok, Ok, Short, Short
Feb 13 16:23:47 switch[797]: Port 9 passed PoE Smart cable check, turning on power
Feb 13 16:23:47 switch[797]: Port 12 cable check results: Ok, Ok, Short, Short
Feb 13 16:23:47 switch[797]: Port 12 passed PoE Smart cable check, turning on power
Feb 13 16:23:49 Port: link state changed to 'up' (10M-F) on port 1
Feb 13 16:23:49 Port: link state changed to 'up' (10M-F) on port 2
Feb 13 16:23:50 Port: link state changed to 'up' (10M-F) on port 12
Feb 13 16:23:51 Port: link state changed to 'up' (100M-F) on port 9
Feb 13 16:23:53 system: time set by NTP server
Feb 13 16:23:55 Port: link state changed to 'up' (100M-F) on port 5
Feb 13 16:23:56 Port: link state changed to 'up' (100M-F) on port 7
Feb 13 16:23:56 Port: link state changed to 'up' (100M-F) on port 6
Feb 13 16:24:08 Port: link state changed to 'down' on port 9
Feb 13 16:24:10 Port: link state changed to 'up' (100M-F) on port 9
Feb 13 16:24:14 Port: link state changed to 'down' on port 1
Feb 13 16:24:14 Port: link state changed to 'down' on port 5
Feb 13 16:24:14 Port: link state changed to 'down' on port 7
Feb 13 16:24:15 Port: link state changed to 'down' on port 12
Feb 13 16:24:15 Port: link state changed to 'down' on port 2
Feb 13 16:24:15 Port: link state changed to 'down' on port 6
Feb 13 16:24:16 Port: link state changed to 'up' (100M-F) on port 5
Feb 13 16:24:16 Port: link state changed to 'up' (100M-F) on port 1
Feb 13 16:24:16 Port: link state changed to 'up' (100M-F) on port 7
Feb 13 16:24:16 Port: link state changed to 'up' (100M-F) on port 6
Feb 13 16:24:17 Port: link state changed to 'up' (100M-F) on port 12
Feb 13 16:24:17 Port: link state changed to 'up' (100M-F) on port 2
Feb 15 13:33:31 UI: Port 7 bounced by admin (10.0.0.25)
Feb 15 13:33:31 switch[797]: Port 7 Link: changed from poe override
Feb 15 13:33:31 Port: link state changed to 'down' on port 7
Feb 15 13:33:50 Port: link state changed to 'up' (100M-F) on port 7
Feb 15 13:34:09 Port: link state changed to 'down' on port 7
Feb 15 13:34:11 Port: link state changed to 'up' (100M-F) on port 7
Feb 17 19:35:57 switch[791]: Watchdog 'NE Sector' failure checking 10.0.0.107, watchdog triggered on port 5 (NE Sector), action is Bounce
Feb 17 19:35:57 Port: link state changed to 'down' on port 5
Feb 17 19:36:15 Port: link state changed to 'up' (100M-F) on port 5
Feb 17 19:36:34 Port: link state changed to 'down' on port 5
Feb 17 19:36:35 Port: link state changed to 'up' (100M-F) on port 5

[sirhc]

WHat exactly in your post of your log do you think is a problem? Maybe make the text you feel is in error red.

But before you do this maybe read this post, the whole post: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1178#p8809

COMMON QUESTIONS:

Question: Can I power 802.3af/at devices such as cameras and phones with Netonix Switches?

Answer: YES, but since they are a "passive" POE switch you will have to manually turn on POE for the port. Most 802.3af/at devices use 48V NOT 48VH. Never use 48VH until you verify your device will accept power on all 4 pairs.

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Question: I see a cross-short, is that bad?

Answer: YES, never turn POE on any port where you see a cross short as that means 1 wire from one pair is shorted to another wire of another pair which is a DEAD SHORT and will fry the switch port. Cross-Short is about the only real bad situation that will surely fry a port.

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Question: Why do I see abnormal termination when I do a cable diagnostics?

Answer: Because every manufacturer does not follow the proper design specs so when the device is unpowered it is actually doing the cable test into the device electronics and every device will report differently. They "should" report OK, OK , OK , OK once the device is powered up however some Ethernet surge protectors will always report abnormal termination.

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Question: Why do I see short on pairs 3 and 4 on a of devices especially UBNT airMAX 10/100 gear.

Answer: Because every manufacturer does not follow the proper design specs and use a 4 channel Ethernet Transformer designed for POE with a center tab for each pair. Since pair 3 and 4 is not needed to carry data with 10/100 only links they use them for power only which allows them to use a cheaper 2 channel transformer without a center tap for pairs 1 and 2. They then connect the 2 wires from each pair to the board skipping the need for a transformer with a center tap so the 2 wires from pair 3 are connected directly to the board shorted together for positive and the 2 wires from pair 4 are shorted together directly on the board for negative.


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Question: Why do you say "DO NOT PLUG CABLES INTO LIVE POE PORTS".

Answer: Our switches are "passive" POE which means if POE is enabled on a port the power is live so if you plug in a cable that is shorted or the piece of equipment is bad you will damage the port in the switch and this damage is not covered under warranty.

You own the switch, you can power it up under water if you want to but do not expect that to be covered under warranty same as
shorted ports are NOT covered under warranty

.
Look, to be able to deliver .75A and 1.5A @ 55C we have to size the Polyfuse to not trip while delivering those watts at that temperature which means if the switch is in an environment that is less than 55C the Polyfuse will not trip until way beyond that level. The Polyfuses are used more for fire protection from the result of a dead short and since you can not find Ethernet Transformers to handle more than 1A per pair this means that the chances are extremely high that plugging in a shorted cable or bad device to a live port will result in the damaging of the port and it will cost you money.

You can not compare our switches to "active" POE switches which means that power is applied once the switch negotiates with the device and at that point the switch knows the cabling is not shorted and applies power. The problem with "active" POE switches is 802.3af limits you to 15W and 802.3at limits you to 25W which will not power things like airFIBER radios or deliver 1.5A to a MINI switch.

I have been a WISP for over 20 years now and I KNOW that we all make mistakes and crimp ends wrong from time to time and we are sometimes in a rush and plug the connectors in without being careful they are straight.

If you turn POE on after you plug in the cable the switch will attempt to determine if there is a cross-short and prevent you from making a mistake if you leave POE SMART enabled. POE SMART is not perfect but it catches 99% of the problems and saves a lot of switch ports.
If you turn the POE on after you plug the cable in the connector is firmly seated and straight with no chance of crossing pins and shorting out your port and possibly damaging your device.

Also there is a possibility that when you plug in a shorted cable or one with a bad device that too much power is drawn and can cause your switch to not only damage a port but reboot the switch causing your tower to go down while the reboot is in progress.

Plug a shorted cable into our switch and MOST times you fry that port and the rest of the switch is fine and will continue to operate. Do that to a ToughSWITCH and most times the whole switch ios dead, at least that has been my experience at my WISP over the years. Feel free to try it yourself.

If you want to plug cables into live ports it is your switch do as you want as this damage is easy to spot when you RMA it and we will not fix it for free.

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Question: Can I power this device with Netonix.

Answer: Our switches are "passive" POE which means if POE is enabled on a port the power is live so if you plug in a cable that is shorted or the piece of equipment is bad or has an incompatible polarity PIN OUT you will damage the port in the switch and probably the equipment, this damage is not covered under warranty.

There are 4 Pairs and 8 PINs in an Ethernet Cable:
Pair 1: White Orange.(PIN 1 ) & Orange.(PIN 2) is POSITIVE
Pair 2: White Green...(PIN 3) & Green...(PIN 6) is NEGATIVE
Pair 3: White Blue.....(PIN 4) & Blue.....(PIN 5) is POSITIVE
Pair 4: White Brown..(PIN 7) & Brown...(PIN 8) is NEGATIVE

24V POE Option @ .75A - constant draw can surge/spike to 1A:
802.3af/at MODE B pinout
Pair 3 / PINs 4, 5 are POSITIVE
Pair 2 & 4 / PINs 3, 6, 7, 8 are NEGATIVE

48V POE Option @.75A - constant draw can surge/spike to 1A:
802.3af/at MODE B pinout
You would use this option to power most 802.3af/at devices like IP Phones and Cameras
Pair 3 / PINs 4, 5 are POSITIVE
Pair 2 & 4 / PINs 3, 6, 7, 8 are NEGATIVE

24VH POE Option @1.5A - constant draw can surge/spike to 2A:
802.3af/at MODE A & MODE B pinout combined
Pair 1 & 3 / PINs 1, 2, 4, 5 are POSITIVE
Pair 2 & 4 / PINs 3, 6, 7, 8 are NEGATIVE

48VH POE Option @1.5A - constant draw can surge/spike to 2A:
802.3af/at MODE A & MODE B pinout combined
Pair 1 & 3 / PINs 1, 2, 4, 5 are POSITIVE
Pair 2 & 4 / PINs 3, 6, 7, 8 are NEGATIVE

So now that you know what the PIN OUT is (which is in our Spec Sheet on page 17 and in the product description on our web store) all you need to do is look at the spec sheet from your device and see which POE option you can use.

If they do not specify the PIN OUT polarity break out a multi-meter and cut one end off of a patch cable and strip the wires and figure it out on your own.

Also if they have a bridge rectifier circuit like MIMOSA the device will swap the polarity the way it wants it.

WARNING - If your equipment is not specifically designed to accept power on all 4 Pairs do NOT use a VH POE option.

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[Andy Hanson]

This is what bothers me I am new to the Netonix I ran Unifi prior to these but now all six sites have Netonix there great switches I went from weekly visits per tower down to none. Below is what worries me and maybe its normal.
Feb 13 16:23:46 switch[797]: Port 1 cable check results: Ok, Ok, Short, Short
Feb 13 16:23:46 switch[797]: Port 1 passed PoE Smart cable check, turning on power
Feb 13 16:23:46 switch[797]: Port 5 cable check results: Open, Open, Short, Short
Feb 13 16:23:46 switch[797]: Port 5 passed PoE Smart cable check, turning on power
Feb 13 16:23:47 switch[797]: Port 2 cable check results: Ok, Open, Short, Short
Feb 13 16:23:47 switch[797]: Port 2 passed PoE Smart cable check, turning on power
Feb 13 16:23:47 switch[797]: Port 6 cable check results: Open, Open, Short, Short
Feb 13 16:23:47 switch[797]: Port 6 passed PoE Smart cable check, turning on power
Feb 13 16:23:47 switch[797]: Port 7 cable check results: Open, Open, Short, Short
Feb 13 16:23:47 switch[797]: Port 7 passed PoE Smart cable check, turning on power
Feb 13 16:23:47 switch[797]: Port 9 cable check results: Ok, Ok, Short, Short
Feb 13 16:23:47 switch[797]: Port 9 passed PoE Smart cable check, turning on power
Feb 13 16:23:47 switch[797]: Port 12 cable check results: Ok, Ok, Short, Short
Feb 13 16:23:47 switch[797]: Port 12 passed PoE Smart cable check, turning on power


To me it seems like the power was shut off and it cycled through each port and turned them back on. I am thing after reading through some other posts that the link change to up and down its possibly the connectors having issues. Again I am new to netonix and learning as I go.

[sirhc]

The above log is normal from POE SMART which check for cross-shorts before turning POE ON.


When you initially turn the switch on, or turn poe on to port, or on rare occasions do a reboot in the UI the switch first checks each port looking for cross-shorts which would damage the port in the switch before actually turning POE ON.


Why you see shorts on pair 3 and 4 is explained here:

Question:
Why do I see short on pairs 3 and 4 on a of devices especially UBNT airMAX 10/100 gear.

Answer:
Because the manufacturer is pre shorting pair 3 and 4 wires together (not a cross-short between pairs) because the device is only 100M and thus only uses pairs 1 and 2 for communications and pairs 3 and 3 are for POE power only.

Do a search on the forums for POE SMART and read about it as there are many posts regarding this feature.

[Andy Hanson]

I will do some more re-search thank you. The last question I have for you is when you see this

Feb 13 16:23:49 Port: link state changed to 'up' (10M-F) on port 1
Feb 13 16:23:49 Port: link state changed to 'up' (10M-F) on port 2
Feb 13 16:23:50 Port: link state changed to 'up' (10M-F) on port 12
Feb 13 16:23:51 Port: link state changed to 'up' (100M-F) on port 9
Feb 13 16:23:53 system: time set by NTP server
Feb 13 16:23:55 Port: link state changed to 'up' (100M-F) on port 5
Feb 13 16:23:56 Port: link state changed to 'up' (100M-F) on port 7
Feb 13 16:23:56 Port: link state changed to 'up' (100M-F) on port 6
Feb 13 16:24:08 Port: link state changed to 'down' on port 9
Feb 13 16:24:10 Port: link state changed to 'up' (100M-F) on port 9
Feb 13 16:24:14 Port: link state changed to 'down' on port 1
Feb 13 16:24:14 Port: link state changed to 'down' on port 5
Feb 13 16:24:14 Port: link state changed to 'down' on port 7
Feb 13 16:24:15 Port: link state changed to 'down' on port 12
Feb 13 16:24:15 Port: link state changed to 'down' on port 2
Feb 13 16:24:15 Port: link state changed to 'down' on port 6

Could this be a connector issue.

[sirhc]

I will do some more re-search thank you. The last question I have for you is when you see this

Feb 13 16:23:49 Port: link state changed to 'up' (10M-F) on port 1
Feb 13 16:23:49 Port: link state changed to 'up' (10M-F) on port 2
Feb 13 16:23:50 Port: link state changed to 'up' (10M-F) on port 12
Feb 13 16:23:51 Port: link state changed to 'up' (100M-F) on port 9
Feb 13 16:23:53 system: time set by NTP server
Feb 13 16:23:55 Port: link state changed to 'up' (100M-F) on port 5
Feb 13 16:23:56 Port: link state changed to 'up' (100M-F) on port 7
Feb 13 16:23:56 Port: link state changed to 'up' (100M-F) on port 6
Feb 13 16:24:08 Port: link state changed to 'down' on port 9
Feb 13 16:24:10 Port: link state changed to 'up' (100M-F) on port 9
Feb 13 16:24:14 Port: link state changed to 'down' on port 1
Feb 13 16:24:14 Port: link state changed to 'down' on port 5
Feb 13 16:24:14 Port: link state changed to 'down' on port 7
Feb 13 16:24:15 Port: link state changed to 'down' on port 12
Feb 13 16:24:15 Port: link state changed to 'down' on port 2
Feb 13 16:24:15 Port: link state changed to 'down' on port 6

Could this be a connector issue.

OK you do realize when UBNT airMAX 100M devices boot they first boot up with a 10M link then drop then comes up at 100M - Again this is normal behavior of the UBNT device.

I do not mean to be condescending but you could easily LAB/DEBUG this for yourself.
Use the factory provided POE brick and plug into you laptop.
You will see the device boot up to 10M link then drop then eventually come up at 100M

When embedded devices boot they first gain network access via the boot-loader which often uses GENERIC drivers unless the manufacturer takes the time to make it boot with specific drivers but who normally cares as the boot-loader is only providing access for emergency operations like firmware recovery and 10M is fine then after the firmware is loaded and it switches over to the firmware real drivers providing full port connection speeds.

Most of the things your asking/concerned about are relate to your UBNT device and how it operates not the Netonix switch.

[Andy Hanson]

Thank you I appreciate it