POE OPTIONS BY MODEL

[sirhc]

Will the AF5x select 1 gig, with the standard 24 volt Netonix port selected, or will it only select 100 Mbps port due to the DC wiring configuration ?

1 Gig.

The POE being delivered is not a factor in Ethernet communications.

[rkelly1]

1 gig ...indicated both, on the afx5 and the netonix. looking at it right now.

[ralliart12]

Hi, I'm unable to power up an Unifi UAP-AC using the WS-12-250-AC. Ran cable diagnostics on the various ports that I connected the UAP-AC to, & here's one of the sample results:


The specific issue I'm facing is: whenever I turn on the PoE option (I tried with various PoE values though I believe the UAP-AC requires at least 48V) on the port that the UAP-AC is connected to, [u]nothing happens on the UAP-AC, & after a very short while, the switch restarts itself[/u] (so if I were on the admin page of the switch I will receive a warning message to reload the page).



UAP-AC has been tested to work properly with my router (via non-PoE means) & the WS-12-250-AC has been tested to work properly with my router (feeding to a laptop client).

Will like some guidance.


P.S. I'm also very perturbed why I can never get the "OK" result on all 4 pairs of each LAN connection no matter the quality & "fresh-ness" of the cable. What gives?

[sirhc]

I do not have any UAP AC units but I believe they are 1G devices?

We are talking about a UniFi AP right?

I believe they require 48V as they are an 802.3af device, you can verify this by looking at their POE brick.

Is this switch firmware version 1.2.2? NOT really a factor just like to know that it is not v1.3.0

Your cable diagnostics shows SHORT on pairs 3 and 4 which it should not on a 1G POE device.

A SHORT on pairs 3 and 4 is normal for airMAX radios that are only 10/100 but not normal for 1G devices.

1G devices show up as either OPEN, OK, or Abnormal Termination until powered up then they report OK on all 4 pairs (the same length cables)

Also it shows ODD pair lengths which indicates something is messed up.

Are you using any surge protectors? Maybe they are not 1G or bad?

Have you tried a pre-made cable with a different port?

Always try a POE device by itself with it's POE brick first to insure it is OK.

If you try to power this up with the same cable and the POE brick what happens?

You should proceed carefully at this point until you figure this out because something is wrong. I would not try using the switch until you verify this device is good and verify everything separately.

[lligetfa]

Which UAP-AC model, indoor or outdoor? I have neither but AFAIK they use the 802.3at PoE standard.

How long is the wire for real? 140m exceeds the standard.

[sirhc]

Yea something is wrong with his setup.

I "know" the switch will power 48V 802.3af/at devices as I use our switch in our office to power 1G 802.3af/at phones and such.

The fact that he says the switch reboots leans me towards something is wrong with the cabling such as an Ethernet Surge Protector or bad cabling or bad device which is shorting out power and causing the PolyFuses to heat up and open. The Polyfuses in our switches are there for fire protection against dead shorts more than to protect the Ethernet transformers so dead shorts will take out the Transformers. If we rated the Polyfuses to protect the switch then you could not get the current you need at 55C as they do not make transformers rated that high.

The highest rated transformers we could find are rated at 1A per pair which is what we are putting in the WS-12-250-AC wo you have up to 2A if using all 4 pair but the PolyFuses are rated higher than that unless you are in a 55C environment so a short will take out the Transformers.

Our Polyfuses are rated to maintain current loads at 55C which means at cooler temperature they will allow more current than the Transformers can handle but the idea is to not have shorts right - LOL

So I guess we will have to wait for him to do more testing and get us more info.

[ralliart12]

I do not have any UAP AC units but I believe they are 1G devices?

We are talking about a UniFi AP right?...

Yes to both points.

I believe they require 48V as they are an 802.3af device, you can verify this by looking at their POE brick...

I've read they can't work on 24V; will try to grab a photo of their PoE brick.

...Is this switch firmware version 1.2.2? NOT really a factor just like to know that it is not v1.3.0...

Erm, unfortunately, I'm running firmware version v1.3.0rc9.

...Your cable diagnostics shows SHORT on pairs 3 and 4 which it should not on a 1G POE device.

A SHORT on pairs 3 and 4 is normal for airMAX radios that are only 10/100 but not normal for 1G devices...

So, "SHORT" diagnostic result specifically on pairs 3/4 are a "pass" for non-GigaBit devices?

...1G
devices show up as either OPEN, OK, or Abnormal Termination until
powered up then they report OK on all 4 pairs (the same length cables)...

Thanks for the education.

...Also it shows ODD pair lengths which indicates something is messed up...

When you say "ODD", do you literally mean odd-number values, or odd as in weird?

...Are you using any surge protectors? Maybe they are not 1G or bad?...

No. Unlikely.

...Always try a POE device by itself with it's POE brick first to insure it is OK...
If you try to power this up with the same cable and the POE brick what happens?

Yup, tried powering up the UAP-AC with its brick & various other cables in various lengths & various cable conditions without any connectivity issues.

...Have you tried a pre-made cable with a different port?...You should proceed carefully at this point until you figure this out because something is wrong. I would not try using the switch until you verify this device is good and verify everything separately.

Tried a direct connection (to the switch) with a decently new cable & pumping out 48VH (0.75A); got it to work:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwaqfqP5n0A

Which UAP-AC model, indoor or outdoor?...

Indoor.

...How long is the wire for real? 140m exceeds the standard.

I can't determine the exact length of the cable connection (that I was using to try out previously);
but isn't 140m a tad too short? Wouldn't deployment of the APs in the false ceilings of offices easily exceed this distance between the AP & the switch/routers?

...which is shorting out power and causing the PolyFuses to heat up and open...

So it's possible I'd burnt something irreversibly?

...So I guess we will have to wait for him to do more testing and get us more info.

I will be; because actually I'm not intending to run the UAP-AC via such a direct connection from the WS-12-250-AC. The original intention is:
router > netonix switch > patch panel > wall-outlet (LAN point) > UAP-AC

If you need me to do any specific form of testing, do let me know.

[sirhc]

I think the problem here is the v1.3.0rc9, with that version we are using POE Smart which may be causing this issue?

Look in the switch log and see if POE Smart is turning off the POE?

Please put v1.2.2 on the switch and see if things act differently?

When you have it running with 48VH what is the current draw showing on the status tab?

You should NOT need 48VH to run that device, 48V should be enough.

I am really confused with the cable diagnostics, when I was ODD I mean weird! - LOL

Give me a call on my cell if have a moment.

[lligetfa]

100 meters is the limit based on established standards. Anything over that could cause issues.

[ralliart12]

I think the problem here is the v1.3.0rc9, with that version we are using POE Smart which may be causing this issue?
Look in the switch log and see if POE Smart is turning off the POE?...

Hmm, I don't think so (partially also because now the PoE setup has been proven to work (at least once, any way). But I will pull the logs for your assessment.
Talking about logs, there's another queer issue with my switch logging, i.e. despite me setting a specific NTP server, the timestamp on the log is severely off.
Will post the log later.

update (so here's what I did today, i.e. attempt #3):
****start log*****
Jan 1 08:00:08 kernel: vtss_port: Loaded port module on board Luton26, type 5 Jan 1 08:00:09 system: Setting MAC address from flash configuration: EC:13:B3:61:06:4A Jan 1 08:00:11 admin: adding lan (eth0) to firewall zone lan Jan 1 08:00:17 pinger: Ignoring port bounces because date is wrong Jan 1 08:00:20 dropbear[729]: Running in background Jan 1 08:00:22 switch[764]: Port 2 unplugged, PoE Smart is disabling PoE Jan 1 08:01:30 UI: Configuration changed by 192.168.1.103 Jan 1 08:01:30 UI: Port 2 PoE: changed from 'Off' to '24V' Jan 1 08:01:33 switch[764]: PoE enabled on port 2, PoE Smart is starting cable check Jan 1 08:01:38 switch[764]: Port 2 cable check results: Abnormal termination, Open, Abnormal termination, Abnormal termination Jan 1 08:01:38 switch[764]: Port 2 passed PoE Smart cable check, turning on power Jan 1 08:01:41 switch[764]: Port 2 unplugged, PoE Smart is disabling PoE Jan 1 08:03:30 UI: Configuration changed by 192.168.1.103 Jan 1 08:03:30 UI: Port 2 PoE: changed from 'Off' to '24V' Jan 1 08:03:32 switch[764]: PoE enabled on port 2, PoE Smart is starting cable check Jan 1 08:03:37 switch[764]: Port 2 cable check results: Abnormal termination, Abnormal termination, Open, Open Jan 1 08:03:37 switch[764]: Port 2 passed PoE Smart cable check, turning on power Jan 1 08:03:40 switch[764]: Port 2 unplugged, PoE Smart is disabling PoE Jan 1 08:04:07 UI: Configuration changed by 192.168.1.103 Jan 1 08:04:07 UI: Port 2 PoE: changed from 'Off' to '24VH' Jan 1 08:04:09 switch[764]: PoE enabled on port 2, PoE Smart is starting cable check Jan 1 08:04:14 switch[764]: Port 2 cable check results: Abnormal termination, Abnormal termination, Open, Open Jan 1 08:04:14 switch[764]: Port 2 passed PoE Smart cable check, turning on power Jan 1 08:04:17 switch[764]: Port 2 unplugged, PoE Smart is disabling PoE Jan 1 08:04:40 UI: Configuration changed by 192.168.1.103 Jan 1 08:04:40 UI: Port 2 PoE: changed from 'Off' to '48V' Jan 1 08:04:43 switch[764]: PoE enabled on port 2, PoE Smart is starting cable check Jan 1 08:04:48 switch[764]: Port 2 cable check results: Abnormal termination, Abnormal termination, Open, Open Jan 1 08:04:48 switch[764]: Port 2 passed PoE Smart cable check, turning on power Jan 1 08:06:42 UI: Configuration changed by 192.168.1.103 Jan 1 08:06:42 UI: Port 2 PoE: changed from '48V' to 'Off' Jan 1 08:07:17 UI: Configuration changed by 192.168.1.103 Jan 1 08:07:17 UI: Port 2 PoE: changed from 'Off' to '48V' Jan 1 08:07:20 switch[764]: PoE enabled on port 2, PoE Smart is starting cable check Jan 1 08:07:25 switch[764]: Port 2 cable check results: Abnormal termination, Open, Abnormal termination, Abnormal termination Jan 1 08:07:25 switch[764]: Port 2 passed PoE Smart cable check, turning on power Jan 1 08:25:14 UI: Configuration changed by 192.168.1.106 Jan 1 08:25:14 UI: NTP_Enable: changed from 'Disabled' to 'Enabled' Jan 1 08:25:14 UI: NTP_Host: changed from 'time.windows.com' to '0.ch.pool.ntp.org' Jan 1 08:25:19 system: starting ntpclient Jan 1 08:25:20 system: starting ntpclient
*****end log*****

as you can see, the timestamp for my log is wrong even after I swap NTP IP. & is there a bug with the web button to email out the log? I clicked that button (next to "Clear"), but it doesn't give me a prompt to indicate the destination email address??

...Please put v1.2.2 on the switch and see if things act differently?...

If I can get the PoE setup stable on 1.3.0RC9 will you prefer me to remain on that so that I can contribute to beta-testing this particular version.
I'm not deploying this setup in a production environment.

...When you have it running with 48VH what is the current draw showing on the status tab?
You should NOT need 48VH to run that device, 48V should be enough...

Ah, let me clear the air:
I tried this whole PoE setup total of 2 times:

1st time: no-go, switch reboots despite me trying all forms of voltage (I know I know, my approach is horrendous) on multiple ports. For this first time, I also tried with patched wall LAN outlets, i.e. NOT direct connection.

2nd time: good-to-go. Direct LAN cable connection for everything. & as you can see in the YouTube video (around 0:20s mark): I'd used 48V 0.75A (on port 2; not 48VH) & the UAP-AC is drawing 10-10.6watts on idle (stupid me didn't goto the Status tab while I actually run an speedtest to test how much is drawn during usage).

which brings me to a PoE generic question:

Assuming the max power draw of the AP never exceeds 15 watts (even under load), is it better for me to use 24V 0.75A instead of 48V 0.75A, i.e. use the lowest voltage and amperage to drive the PoE device?

update:
What I observed (today, i.e. attempt #3): I tried both 24V & 24VH (on port2) to power up the UAP-AC but no-go; in the end it's 48V (not 48VH) that succeeded (just like yesterday's attempt #2).

& what I interpret as the switch "rebooting", was what occurred when I tried to use 24V & 24VH to power up the UAP today: the console page (of the Netonix) reported something along the line of, "attempting to communicate with the device, no configuration can be loaded until this page is reloaded".

I'm still perplexed though, i.e. right now I'm observing the power draw from the UAP-AC (as reported by the Netonix switch console page) to average around 10.3watts (even under load; yes, I took note today), & only hit 15watts once. By right, 24V 0.75A should be more than sufficient to drive the AP; but apparently it can't. & I can't fathom the logic.

...I am really confused with the cable diagnostics, when I was ODD I mean weird! - LOL...

Me too; I'm still trying to find some articles to cross-reference my understanding of the various reported cable diagnostics results.

...Give me a call on my cell if have a moment.

Not really convenient, i.e. different timezone.
*************************
Btw, if indeed I tripped the poly-fuse on some of the ports, assuming I don't do it often, due to the nature of polyfuses, there ain't no permanent damage done right?

update:
@lligetfa:

so to paint a clearer picture of where the LAN cables go where at my site, here are some photos (as you can see, I don't think I'm using any surge protectors, etc):

(i) one end of this LAN cable is connected to port 2 from the Netonix. Port 2 on this mini patch panel is linked to another wall LAN outlet.


(ii)port 1 is connected to my router


(iii) this is the outlet patched from my mini patch panel


(iv) & this photo is self-explanatory.